betasom negli usa!

[Admiral Luposky]

I visited the BETTASOM forum and saw this string:

 

http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php?boar...d=2309;start=15

 

I believe that this is a photograph of my father,

Girolamo Cafiero, on the deck of his submarine

R.Smg.Dandolo

 

Can anyone tell me anything about this photo????

 

Thank You

 

Antonio Cafiero

Tucson, AZ USA

 

+01-520-272-8702

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

My name is Antonio Cafiero

I live in Tucson, Arisona USA

My father served on the R.Smg.Dandolo during WW2

 

I visited the Bettasom Forum and saw your post:

 

http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php?boar...d=2309;start=15

 

I believe that the man standing by the deck guns of

the Dandolo in this photograph is my father Girolamo

Cafiero (born 1919 in Meta Italy).

 

PLEASE....if you have any information about this photo

or anything about the Dandolo or my father, Girolamo

Cafiero, contact me by email or by phone:

 

+01-520-272-8702

 

or...

if you give me your photo i can call you.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Antonio Cafiero

 

 

 

 

 

ragazzi mi sono arrivate queste 2 mail (quasi uguali) nella mia casella di posta elettronica.

 

ce la facciamo a dargli una mano?

[Steffsap]

Bé, direi che bisogna impegnarsi a fondo... qualche idea?

[canarb]

Dobbiamo dargli una mano.

Lupoz, intanto contattalo.

[Betasom]

Lupoz, ma l'immgine cui si riferisce è la foto nella tua firma per caso ? Se così fosse non avresti che scrivergli dove l'hai presa ... :s01:

 

Missà che lui ha cercato "Dandolo" con google ed è incappato in una delle nostre pianificazioni dei raduni, visto che la parola Dandolo era nel titolo, poi vedendo la foto ha pensato che sia una foto del Dandolo ...

 

Ma effettivamente, quella nella tua firma è una foto del Dandolo ?

[BERILLO*]

...E SE FOSSE DAVVERO SUO PADRE?.....CHE BELLA STORIA,....MI EMOZIONO PER LUI.....

 

BERILLO :s15:

[BERILLO*]

GUARDA QUI, MAGARI TROVI QUALCOSA ...

 

 

http://www.tauromodel.it/Inglese/D011.htm

 

 

BERILLO :s15:

[Visitatore Andreas]

In passato e' stato Marco il referente per queste ricerche.

 

Il mio consiglio e' di rivolgersi a lui: Lupoz inoltrerei il materiale in tuo possesso a Marco.

 

Quella foto e' stata quindi proverbiale!

:s15:

[Admiral Luposky]

è vero!! si riferisce alla mia foto!

 

nella fretta di popstare nn avevo guardato il 3d linkato ( ero al telefono).

 

ca##o chi si ricorda dove l'ho presa???

 

purtroppo l'ho rimpicciolita e rimessa on - line sul mio spazio web per problemi di dimensione ma... SIIIIIIIII NN L'HO RINOMINATA!!!!

 

HA ANCORA IL NOME ORIGINALE!!!!!!

 

ok adesso metto all frusta google, mando mail al tipo e vi aggiorno sulla situazione!

 

:s01: :s01:

[Visitatore Andreas]

Perfetto.

 

:s02:

[C.te Simone]

io sò che l'immagine che usi tu come firma la puoi trovare su subnetitalia.it nella sezione "your photos"

 

:s02:

[Admiral Luposky]

esatto simo!

 

già mandato url via mail allo yankee :s01:

 

purtroppo il cannone della mia firma nn è del dandolo bensi (ma nn è sicurissimo) del regio smg. zoea.

 

cmq assieme alle foto c'è l'indirizzo email del propietario e quindi gli ho consigliato di mandare mail anche a lui per avere maggiori info.

 

gli ho detto di tenermi aggiornato che almeno posso rendervi edotti!!

[Admiral Luposky]

il nostro amico antonio cafiero mi ha inviato un'altra mail che allego per intero.

 

tradurrò sotto la parte più saliente che riguarda un aiuto che potremmo dargli per cercare negli uffici della marina.

 

From : "anthrofilms" anthrofilms@yahoo.com

To : "Lupoz®" luposky@libero.it

Cc :

Date : Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:50:10 -0700 (PDT)

Subject : Re:Il Dandolo a Venezia

 

> Mr.Danielle Graselli,

>

> First let me apologize for not writing to you in

> Italian. In preparation for a trip to Italy next

> spring, I am learning Italian.

>

> My father often told me how life was very hard in

> Italy after the war and when he came to America in

> 1948 he wanted to be American and speak only English

> so we did not learn Italian.

>

> But my father also told me many colorful stories about

> the war and his time in the Regia Marina as a

> submariner.

>

> Years after his death, I am now on a mission to

> reconstruct his time on the R.Smg.Dandolo and to see

> if the stories he told me were true.

>

> So i am trying to find documents, photographs, crew

> lists or anything at all that can help shed some light

> on this time in Italian history which, as you

> mentioned, was a difficult time for Italy.

>

> I apologize once more that this letter is so long and

> I appreciate that you have taken the time to read it

> and I thank you in advance for that.

>

> My search for documentation and photos comes from

> three sources:

> #1.)the internet

> #2.)historical archives in Italy

> #3.)U.S. Naval and National Archives

> #4.)Finding and contacting surviving Regia Marina

> Submariners or their families

>

> I believe that there is a wealth of extant

> documentation, information, letters and photos from

> that time that are hidden away in boxes or forgotten

> in closets and safes. My goal is to add, in some

> small way, to the appreciation of what those brave men

> did in those amazing vessels during that troubled and

> dangerous time. I believe that Italy's role in the

> war, especially that of the Regia Marina, is GREATLY

> underestimated, misunderstood and underrated in the

> English speaking world. And i also want to know about

> my father who is almost a stranger to me prior to 1948

> (he died in 1998).

>

> According to what I have been able to uncover,

> R.Smg.Dandolo surrendered to the Allies on 09

> September 1943. I also know that the Dandolo was in

> New London Submarine base (along with other captured

> Axis Subs) and Guantanamo Bay Cuba for use by the US

> Navy for ASW (anti submarine training). So my question

> is:

> When was the Dandolo (and other Italian subs) in New

> London and Guantanamo and for how long?

> Did they have Italian crews?

> What happened to the crews after surrender?

> Does the US Navy have documentation about these

> captured Italian Vessels?

> These are the questions that i have posed to the

> National Archives and the Naval Archives in Washington

> D.C. USA and I am waiting for an answer.

>

> I want to send a letter to the Archives of Military

> Personnel in Rome. I have composed a letter in

> Italian for that purpose. But i have two questions

> for you on this point:

> 1.) Is requesting information from Rome by mail wise?

> Or should i do it in person

> 2.) Should I include money in the envelope with the

> request for postage and research costs?

>

> Of course, I have many, many more questions but I feel

> I have taken quite enough of your time for now. I am

> just beginning this journey. One goal is to build an

> internet site dedicated to the Dandolo and it's crew.

> But this will take time. First I have to build a

> history with documentation and, if possible,

> photographs.

>

> I looked at the images that you sent me the link for

> and, yes, I can see that this photo is not of the

> Dandolo and that is not my father, although it does

> look like him.

>

> Perhaps you can post a message in the forum for me in

> Italian with a request to anyone who knows anything

> about the Dandolo to contact me.

>

> Again, i want to thank you very, very, very, much for

> your response and the interest you have taken in my

> project.

>

> Thank you again.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Antionio Cafiero

> son of Girolamo Cafiero

> Radio Operator, R.Smg. Dandolo

>

 

ecco la parte saliente:

 

According to what I have been able to uncover,

> R.Smg.Dandolo surrendered to the Allies on 09

> September 1943. I also know that the Dandolo was in

> New London Submarine base (along with other captured

> Axis Subs) and Guantanamo Bay Cuba for use by the US

> Navy for ASW (anti submarine training). So my question

> is:

> When was the Dandolo (and other Italian subs) in New

> London and Guantanamo and for how long?

> Did they have Italian crews?

> What happened to the crews after surrender?

> Does the US Navy have documentation about these

> captured Italian Vessels?

> These are the questions that i have posed to the

> National Archives and the Naval Archives in Washington

> D.C. USA and I am waiting for an answer.

>

> I want to send a letter to the Archives of Military

> Personnel in Rome. I have composed a letter in

> Italian for that purpose. But i have two questions

> for you on this point:

> 1.) Is requesting information from Rome by mail wise?

> Or should i do it in person

> 2.) Should I include money in the envelope with the

> request for postage and research costs?

 

tradotto:

 

ho scoperto che il dandolo si è arreso il 9 settembre del '43.

è stato nella base per sottomarini di new london (assieme agli altri som dell'asse catturati) e nella baia di guantanamo per allenamento ASW da parte della us navy.

 

così le mie domande sono:

quando si sono trovati esattamente i sottomarini italiani a new london e a guantanamo? e per quanto tempo?

avevano equipaggi italiani?

cosa è successo agli equipaggi dopo l'armistizio?

la marina usa ha documentazione su questi vascelli?

queste sono le domande che ho posto agli archivi nazionali ed agli archivi navali a washington e sto aspettando una risposta.

 

voglio spedire una lettera agli archivi del personale militare a roma.ne ho fatta una in italiano ma ho 2 domande per te in proposito?

- è saggio mandargli una lettera o dovrei andarci di persona?

-devo allegare denaro per le spese nella busta?

 

 

 

in pratica chiedo aiuto a totiano e gotrek (ma anche a tutti gli altri comandanti che a vario titolo lavorano o hanno lavorato in marina):

 

potete consegnare la sopra menzionata lettera a chi di dovere? (mi farà avere una copia quanto prima)

e se no: quale iter corretto deve seguire antonio cafiero per avere possibilità di successo nella sua impresa?

esattamente quale ufficio segue tali pratiche?

 

postate le risposte qui (in inglese magari: gli ho dato l'url di questo thread in modo tale che possa seguirne gli sviluppi) oppure mandatemi anche un IM che poi lo instrado io verso di lui.

 

HI ANTONIO, I HOPE YOU WILL GET THE HELP YOU NEED HERE IN BETASOM!

 

BYE

 

 

p.s. scusate la carloneria nella traduzione ma nn avevo molto tempo... :s10: :s11:

[willi]

Eccellente Lupo, eccellente!

:s02: :s04: :s15:

[Totiano*]

Hi Antonio,

some few notice about Dandolo may be finded on Italian books and I can serch it for you but, above all, in Italy we have 2 admiral that we consider our father; you can meet them on internet at www.sommergibili.com ,there is a forum also in english.

They knows everything (or they are able to find it) and they can also find the right way to send a letter to the "personnel office" (I think that better is the historical office but....).

Again, old submariners have a little newspaper that can reach every part of the world, is called "aria alla rapida" .

Ask them! Write (only letters, no e-mail) to

 

Aria alla rapida

viale Gorizia 9/bis

20144 Milano

Italy

 

You can also try to contact directly the Navy at www.marina.difesa.it

 

Ask me for any problem in this thread, I will be happy to help you for everything! Find a son that honour his father is a rare thing!

Sorry for my bad english!

 

In that time I'm tryng to contact Rome and have a response to your question.

 

Marco "Totiano" Mascellani

Submariner

 

Scusate S.ri Comandanti, ho pensato di rispondere direttamente ad Antonio su questa discussione.

[kaos^rbs]

IL Dandolo è stato demolito nel '49 :s05:

[Admiral Luposky]

Scusate S.ri Comandanti, ho pensato di rispondere direttamente ad Antonio su questa discussione.

 

ci mancherebbe!! è proprio quello che volevo si facesse! :s15: :s02:

[Admiral Luposky]

allego una nuova lettera che antonio mi ha spedito (con relativa nuova domanda :s02:)

 

i attach a new letter and a new question for us from our new friend antonio!

 

mr. graselli,

 

again....many thanks for your assistance

i didn't think that forum members might work for the

very italian organizations i am seeking information

from

this is good news

 

and thank you for posting my letter to the forum

this is EXACTLY the kind of assistance i am looking

for

and it is MUCH appreciated

 

i recieved a phone call today from the national

archives still picture branch in washington DC

they told me that they do have photos (still images)

of various submarines of the royal italian navy taken

by the USNavy on 09 september 1943 (so far, none of

the Dandolo)

i am requesting these and other images

and even if they are not of the Dandolo, i can still

make them available on the intenet to add to the

growing online resources of those interested in the

Regia Marina

 

here is a question for you:

are there any italian submarines from 1939-1945 that

exist today?

 

thanks again,

 

antonio

 

 

 

traduco inoltre per chi nn sapesse l'inglese la sua domanda:

 

ci sono sommergibili italiani del '39 - '45 che esistano tutt'oggi?

 

ciao

[old_fly37]

Che bella e commovente storia...

me la stavo proprio predendo a causa dei miei collegamenti lenti...

 

 

fly37

[Steffsap]

Just found.

[Visitatore Gotrek]

Che bella e commovente storia...

me la stavo proprio predendo  a causa dei miei collegamenti lenti...

 

 

fly37

 

 

Non solo i collegamenti...

Fly è ormai una settimana che mi arrivano migliaia di virus dalla tua mail.....

[willi]

Gran bella foto Steffsap!

:s02:

[Steffsap]

Grazie... :s04:

 

To Mr. Cafiero:

I have received your e mail; please use to steffsap@tin.it to contact me, and let me use this address to contact you. A previous message of mine didn't reach you. Thanks.

[Totiano*]

Unfortunately only one little sub arrived to our day, it's a "CB" Type located in Turin, northern Italy.

[Marco U-78 Scirè]

anche questo non è "malaccio"..... :s07: :s07: :s07:

 

http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php?boar...y;threadid=1336

 

 

anzi....... :s15: :s15: :s15: :s15:

[Totiano*]

è meraviglioso mka appartiene al periodo sbagliato...

[Admiral Luposky]

i just received 3 new emails. i will post them as soon as possible.

 

totiano spiegami dove è sito il CB!! sono in trasferta a moncalieri in questi giorni!!!

 

nn posso nn visitarlo!

[Admiral Luposky]

2 email erano di contorno. questa è quella importante:

 

To My BETTASOM (betasom antonio... betasom :s01:)friends:

 

Here is some of the information, in the form of email

and email attachments, that i have been able to find

regarding the Dandolo and other vessels of Regia

Marina in the United States during and after WW2.

 

You can see from the attachment(s) that an original

member of the crew of the Dandolo visited the

Submarine Force Museum in Groton, Connecticut in 2000

and gave the archives a color Xerox copy of some

photographs that he had of the Dandolo and it's crew.

 

The images are of a very poor quality. I am trying to

locate this person or his family to trace the original

photos, or any more he might have, so that i can scan

them and make them available to you.

 

Also...

Some of the documents clearly show that the USNavy

benefited from the surrender, capture and use of

Italian Submarines for training american submariners

and freeing amercian training vessels for combat.

This is no small contribution and it is hardly if ever

mentioned in the histories of the war.

 

At fist this started as a desire to know more about my

father but i can see that Italy's role in the war,

specifically the Regia Marina and her submarine fleet,

affected many aspects of the War's history on both

sides of the Atlantic. With this in mind, i have

decided to broaden my search of the US Archives for

any information, documents or images of any vessels of

the regia Marina in US archives.

 

I have tried to make contact with two members of the

Dandolo crew that i have been able to find (one

mentioned above and another who died recently in

Australia). So far, i have not heard back from my

attempts at contact.

 

My goal is to build a collection of documents, images

and any other information that can be available to

anyone interested in the subject, especially the

families of the crews of the submarine fleet of the

Regia Marina.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

ps

let me know if you can download the attatchments

 

 

 

Note: forwarded message attached.

 

 

 

 

vedo di allegare pure i file, potessero servire da spunto ad alcuni di voi per dei consigli.

[Steffsap]

Interesting news from MR. Cafiero to be shared this with all of us. In the meanwhile, I found a 1944 picture of the Dandolo when on duty on the Allies side. There is the crew on the deck, but unfortunately the picture is a long distance one. I will post it ASAP.

 

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:53:04 -0700 (PDT)

From: anthrofilms

Subject: Fwd: Enrico Dandolo

To: steffsap@tin.it, luposky@libero.it

 

To My BETTASOM friends:

 

Here is some of the information, in the form of email

and email attachments, that i have been able to find

regarding the Dandolo and other vessels of Regia

Marina in the United States during and after WW2.

 

You can see from the attachment(s) that an original

member of the crew of the Dandolo visited the

Submarine Force Museum in Groton, Connecticut in 2000

and gave the archives a color Xerox copy of some

photographs that he had of the Dandolo and it's crew.

 

The images are of a very poor quality. I am trying to

locate this person or his family to trace the original

photos, or any more he might have, so that i can scan

them and make them available to you.

 

Also...

Some of the documents clearly show that the USNavy

benefited from the surrender, capture and use of

Italian Submarines for training american submariners

and freeing amercian training vessels for combat.

This is no small contribution and it is hardly if ever

mentioned in the histories of the war.

 

At fist this started as a desire to know more about my

father but i can see that Italy's role in the war,

specifically the Regia Marina and her submarine fleet,

affected many aspects of the War's history on both

sides of the Atlantic. With this in mind, i have

decided to broaden my search of the US Archives for

any information, documents or images of any vessels of

the regia Marina in US archives.

 

I have tried to make contact with two members of the

Dandolo crew that i have been able to find (one

mentioned above and another who died recently in

Australia). So far, i have not heard back from my

attempts at contact.

 

My goal is to build a collection of documents, images

and any other information that can be available to

anyone interested in the subject, especially the

families of the crews of the submarine fleet of the

Regia Marina.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Admiral Luposky]

questa è la risposta degli archivi usa alle lettere di antonio:

 

Dear Mr. Cafiero:

 

Since the Submarine Force Museum is focused primarily on U.S. Submarine History we do not have much material on foreign submarines. I am however able to provide you with a little bit of information on the Dandolo from our files. First is a brief summary of the use of Italian submarines by the U.S. Navy for training purposes following the Italian surrender to the Allies. Second is a brief description of the Marcello class of submarine to which Dandolo belonged. The last attachment is a copy of several faded photographs given to the Museum several years ago by a crew member who served on the Dandolo. At the time he visited the Museum the former Italian submariner left us his name and address, so perhaps you can contact him to find out more about the story of the Dandolo.

 

Aldo Paoletti

17 John Street 9F

New York, NY 10038

giampao@aol.com

 

Hope this information is of some use to you in your research. You may also want to contact our parent organization the Naval Historical Center in Washington, DC : http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html

 

With respect,

Wendy

Wendy S. Gulley, Archivist

Submarine Force Museum (Archives)

Naval Submarine Base NLON

Groton, CT 06349-5571

(860) 694-3558

 

> > >

 

-----Original Message-----

From: anthrofilms [sMTP:anthrofilms@yahoo.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 2:20 PM

To: sidesf@subasenlon.navy.mil

Subject: Captured or Surrendered Axis Submarines 1943 - 1947

 

Dear Library Director,

 

I am researching my father's service in World War 2.

He (Girolamo Cafiero - born 1919 in Meta di Sorrento

Italy) served in the Regia Marina (Itlalian Royal

Navy) from 1939 - 1945 as a radio operator.

 

My initial research has revealed that his submarine

"Dandolo" (also, "Royal Navy Submarine Dandolo",

"R.Smg. Dandolo," and "R.Smg. Enrico Dandolo) of the

Marcello class was surrendered to the Allies on 09

September 1943.

 

I have also uncovered evidence to suggest that the

Dandolo was brought to New London Submarine Base and

that it was escorted from New London to Guantanamo Bay

by the U.S.S. Eager on 16 March 1946.

 

My question is this:

Were captured or surrendered Italian Submarines

utilized by the US Navy against Axis Subs during the

war? If yes, was Dandolo among them? Also, was the

Dandolo brought to New London and Guantanamo and, if

so, are there any records of this in the US Navy

archives or any US military source?

 

How can i go about researching this information?

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter.

 

If you can be of assistance to me in any way it would

be greatly appreciated.

 

Sincerely and Gratefuly,

 

Antonio Cafiero .

 

 

 

 

prossimo post allego allegati :s03: :s02: (joke of words like "to attach the attachments"!!)

[Admiral Luposky]

io e steffsap abbiamo postato la stessa email nello stesso momento! :s03: :s04:

 

qui cmq il primo allegato che gli archivi usa hanno mandato ad antonio:

 

Italian Submarines (for Training Purposes Only)

 

After the invasion of Sicily. the Allied entry into Naples and the landing at Anzio (in January 1944), Italian submarines were obtained for the A/S training activity. Five of these came across the Atlantic in February 1944. When Mussolini's Navy collapsed three more Italian submersibles

were brought to the United States.

 

These foreign submarines were assigned by ComSubLant to Submarine Squadron Seven. They reported for duty with the DD-DE Shakedown Group in Bermuda and later at Guantanamo, and a few

were assigned at various times to Key West, Fort Lauderdale, Casco Bay and other A/S training cen-

ters.

 

The Italian subs were excellent for training purposes. 0f heavy hull construction, they could out-dive the older American R- and S-boats. And they made good substitutes for the newly commissioned fleet submarines which had formerly participated in the training program and could now be sent non-stop to the Pacific for combat duty.

 

The Italian submarines were not the equals of the American fleet-type, however. The Italian submarines reflected the mediocre industrial plant which had spawned them-equipment fairly good, but not up to American standards.

 

The Italian submarines which were entered into the A/S program in 1943-1944 were the

following:

 

VORTICE &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant G. Manunta)

MAREA &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant A. Russo)

ENRICO DANDOLO  &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant A. Turcio)

TITO SPERI &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant C. Celli)

GOFFREDO MAMELI  &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant C. Buldrini)

ONICE  &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant F. Baggetti)

GIOVANNI DA PROCIDA &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant R. Castracane)

ATROPO &nbsp:smiley16:Lieutenant A. Galzigna)

 

Good for training duty, the Italian submarines also provided the Allies with interesting information

on the European end of the Axis. In the newer models, material shortages were well advertised.

Parts normally made of copper, brass or bronze were fashioned of iron or steel. It could be presumed that

Germany's U-boats were being fed similar ersatz.

 

 

 

 

Excerpts from:

 United States Submarine Operations in World War II

By Theodore Roscoe

[Steffsap]

:s04: :s04: :s04: :s03: ???

[Steffsap]

Here is the picture:

 

Palermo harbour, 1944. The RSM Dandolo, in front of a US oiler type T2.

The caption states some RM subs were used in special missions to transport and recover spies to the German occupied shores. In one of these mission the RSM Axum went aground and then was scuttled near the western Greek coast.

[storyteller]

Hello....This is Antonio Cafiero

 

i finally registered with BETTASOM and i can now respond directly to your posts.

i want first to thank all the BETTASOM forum members for thier interets and assistance in my research

TITOLO: the photo you sent me was amazing...thank you!

LUPOZ: thank you for responding to all my email and for setting the record straight on the conduct of the Regia Marina during the war

 

as you know, i have been able to find the address and email of two members of the Dandolo crew living outside of italy and i have made attempts to contact thier families

 

my goal is to local as many of the Dandolo crew as i can

 

here is a question for the forum:

have any world war 2 era italian submarines survived the war?

 

thanks again!

 

antonio

[Steffsap]

Hello....This is Antonio Cafiero

 

i finally registered with BETTASOM and i can now respond directly to your posts.

i want first to thank all the BETTASOM forum members for thier interets and assistance in my research

TITOLO: the photo you sent me was amazing...thank you!

LUPOZ:  thank you for responding to all my email and for setting the record straight on the conduct of the Regia Marina during the war

 

as you know, i have been able to find the address and email of two members of the Dandolo crew living outside of italy and i have made attempts to contact thier families

 

my goal is to local as many of the Dandolo crew as i can

 

here is a question for the forum:

have any world war 2 era italian submarines survived the war?

 

thanks again!

 

antonio

 

Hi Antonio,

on September 8th, 1943 53 subs were still available, plus several midget ones. 34 were ready to sail and obeyed to the Armistice; the other were scuttled or captured by the Germans. The Repubblica Sociale Italiana (the fascist government) was not able to use any of the full fledged subs, but several midget ones were on duty in the Adriatic sea. 33 subs continued the service with the Regia Marina, 2 of them were sunk fighting with the allies (RSM Axum and RSM Settembrini).

So 31 hulls survived the war, but all but 2 (Giada and Vortice) were scrapped according to the peace terms. 2 were sento to the Soviet Union.

It seem to me to remember that about 3000 Italian sailors died on board of their subs.

[Totiano*]

Dear Antonio (or Staryteller if you prefer :s02:)

via friend I found an ex man from Dandolo's Crew.

He live in Milan. Do you want to contact him?

waiting for news....

 

Totiano

 

Dunque Comandanti, una mail veloce da parte di aria alla rapida mi comunica essere in vita ed a Milano un reduce del Dandolo, il sig X per il momento perchè anche se ho i dati non sò se vorrà essere contattato o meno.

 

Aspetto notizie e vi faccio sapere, tra l'altro sembra che un'altro reduce del Dandolo sia ancora in vita ma la ricerca è in corso...

[storyteller]

Totiano (what can i call you?),

 

Thank you for your help once again! Your efforts are not unappreciated.

 

Yes I definitely want to contact the man that you have located. Can I write him in English? If not, perhaps you can send him the following note:

 

"My name is Antonio Cafiero. My father is Girolamo Cafiero from Meta. My father served on the Royal Italian Navy Submarine "Dandolo" during World War 2.

My father died in 1996 and now I have become very curious about his time in the Regia Marina.

I would like to contact you or meet you. Let me know if this is possible and if you prefer mail, email or telephone.

It would be a great honor to meet a submariner from that time. As well a great honor to meet someone who knew my father.

 

Thank You,

Antonio Cafiero

[Betasom]

@ storyteller: like Totiano said the survivor he had found lives in my town, Milan.

 

Probably the old submariner doesn't know a word of english. We can help you in this way: me and some of us can build up a meeting with the survivor and interview him for you.

 

If he agree, you can write us all the questions that you want to ask him and during the meeting those of us who will go will ask them for you.

 

We can also record his voice, but the dialogue will be in Italian, so I'm guessing if this kind of recording will be of any use to you.

 

But the frist step is to make a contact with the survivor and verify if he agree to meet us.

[Steffsap]

Riporto una mail da parte di Antonio. Forse sta facendo qualche confusione tra diversi di noi, comunque ovviamente è interessato a contattare il membro dell'equipaggio.

 

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:39:38 -0700 (PDT)

From: anthrofilms

Subject: Re: Enrico Dandolo picture

To: Stefano

 

i hope that you got the post i left for you in

BETTASOM that i am interested in contacting the man

you mentioned that was amember of the Dandolo crew

 

i am not always sure how to check for responces to the

posts in BETTASOM but i am learning how to navigate

the sight

 

thank you for your patience

 

antonio

[Totiano*]

Causa improvvisi problemi di lavoro non riesco a organizzare con il membro dell'equipaggio del Dandolo!

Scirè e Beta, visto che siete di Milano, posso inviarvi l'indirizzo per i successivi contatti?

[storyteller]

lupoz,

 

please contact me regarding the Dandolo crewmember that you have located.

i have located another member of the dandolo crew...he is 79 and he lives in venice and we have been echanging email AND he says that he knew my father!

 

storyteller (antonio)

[Admiral Luposky]

ok antonio! here it is the translation you requested to me about the venetian dandolo crew member:

 

Dear Mr. Aldo Paoletti,

 

I am Antonio Cafiero, son of Girolamo Cafiero who

served on the Dandolo during the war. Your son told

me in an email that you also served on the Dandolo and

that you knew my father.

 

How wonderful to know someone who knew my father! I

am anxious to talk to you about your memories of Italy

and my father's service in the Royal Navy during the

war. It would be a great honor to meet you and talk

to you and look at any photos or documents you might

have from that time.

 

Again, it has been a great honor to be able to contact

you.

 

Thank you,

 

Antonio Cafiero

 

 

 

Caro Sig. Aldo Paoletti,

 

sono Antonio Cafiero, figlio di Girolamo Cafiero il quale ha servito sul Dandolo durante la guerra. Suo figlio mi ha detto in un e-mail che anche lei ha servito sul Dandolo e che ha conosciuto mio padre.

 

Che bellezza scoprire qualcuno che ha conosciuto mio padre! Sono ansioso di parlarle riguardo i suoi ricordi dell' Italia e del servizio di mio padre nella Regia Marina durante la guerra. Sarebbe un grande onore incontrarla e parlarle e guardare qualsiasi foto e documento lei possa avere di quell'epoca.

 

Ancora, è stato un grande onore aver potuto contattarla.

 

Grazie,

 

Antonio Cafiero.

[Admiral Luposky]

you can drag and drop this translation and send it to mr. paoletti.

 

bye

[storyteller]

lupoz....

words simply are not sufficient to express my gratitude for your help!

 

i have been thinking about your offer to meet with the ex-submariner;

i think this would be a good idea

tell him that i am interested in the history of the italian navy in WW2 in general, and in my father's service in the italian submarine force in particular

 

what i would love to do is to interview him, with a translator, on digital video

but this will simply have to be at some later date when i can be in italy

 

for now an audio recording would be good, hopefully digital audio but anythng would work...

the important thing is to get him on record in any way: audio, digital audio or video

 

when you are ready, and if agrees, i will formulate and send you a short list of questions

 

maybe he will also agree to meet with me at sometime in the future

also...if someone is in contact with him now i would like to know if he knew my father Girolamo Cafiero

 

many, many thanks,

 

antonio

[Totiano*]

Riporto la lettera ricevuta da aria alla rapida con relativa traduzione in inglese per Storyteller

 

 

ho rintracciato anche un altro reduce del Dandolo, il sig. Onelio Rossi.

PESARO

 

Se avessi l'indirizzo di Antonio Cafiero potrei mandargli un paio di

arretrati di " aria alla rapida ! " dove si parla del DANDOLO e delle

esperienze americane di Lucci.

 

Secondo Lucci ci furono due equipaggi. Uno che portò il smg o i smgg in

America, ed un altro che arrivò più tardi dall'Italia, in sostituzione di

quelli già in America.

 

Alla fine , alcuni dei due equipaggi, vi rimasero, " disertando ". Non

è la parola esatta, ma fecero la scelta di " non farsi più rintracciare e

rimanere in America" , perchè protetti da molti italo-americani che li

avevano " adottati" e convinti a rimanere. E lì fecereo fortuna. C'è chi

diventò ricco facendo semplicemente il barbiere, mestiere che peraltro

aveva imparato a bordo, usando i colleghi sommergibilisti come cavie.

 

( l'ho sempre detto: il sommergibile è una scuola di vita. SUBMARINUS

DOCET ! "

 

 

I've found another crewman from Dandolo: Mr.Onelio Lucci from Pesaro (Italy)

 

If I Mr Antonio Cafiero will send me his address I'll send him a pair of copy of "aria alla rapida", the magazine of the italian submariners, where Mr. Lucci speaks about his "american experience".

 

Mr Lucci sad that there were 2 crews, the first brought the subs from Italy to USA, the 2nd arrived later in substitution the first one.

 

Eventually some men of both crews decided to remain in America. They were "adopted" by Italian-American people and build a little fortune, even simply doing the barber: a job that many of them have learned practising on the other men of the crew when on board of the subs !

(as I always say: "Subs are school of life, SUBMARINUS DOCET")

 

 

Sorry for a not good translation. [ Okkie, I've fixed it as best as I can - "Betasom" - :s02: :s01:] I'm sending you the address of the author of the survivor of Dandolo and trying to contact mr Lucci for you.

 

Totiano

[storyteller]

totiano,

 

first of all; your english is fine

it is I who should apologize to YOU for allowing the language of my father to fall into dis-use!

 

my address is:

 

Antonio Cafiero

149 West Kennedy Street

Tucson, AZ 85701-2203

USA

 

i thank you again for helping me

thanks to you and the BETASOM family i am building a history of my father during the war and this is no small task

 

sincerely,

 

antonio

(storyteller)

[Totiano*]

sending yuor address to mr. Lucci.....

[Totiano*]

CManstretta-CMO@chiyodaitaly.com

 

this is the mail of a big man from "aria alla rapida", the submariners newspaper. send him your mail and ask him about the paper! he is also the man that gave me the address of Dandolo men.

[storyteller]

totiano,

 

i got both the address and email of mr.lucci from your posts: THANK YOU!

i sent mr.lucci an email in english

maybe this was a bad idea?

 

i curse myself for not knwoing italian!

 

storyteller (toni)

[storyteller]

TO MY BETASOM FRIENDS

 

I was wondering if there might be an INTEREST in italy to salvage and restore a world war 2 submarine from the Regia Marina?

 

Is such a project even possible?

 

Maybe i can start a new thread in BETASOM to this idea?

 

let me know what all of you think of this.

 

storyteller (antonio)

[Visitatore Gotrek]

It's very interesting, but there are many troulbel:

1) Money: we aren't able to save modern submarine like Toti 'cause we haven't so much money.

2) Moral: a sunk sub is a holy site, an eternal bed for the dead sailors.

3) Technic: it's very hard save a sunk sub