Battelli Usa A Taiwan?

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un interessante articolo da defensenews a firma francepresse in data 17 luglio

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1957470&C=navwar

 

in sostanza è stato fatto un'altro passo verso l'acquisto di 8 sommergibili convenzionali da costruire negli usa per un importo stimato di 11 miliardi di dollari. dovrebbe essere versato un anticipo di 360 milioni di dollari e poi un pagamento in 2 tranche, una per la progettazione e l'altra per la costruzione.

 

il tutto nonostante i partiti di opposizione al governo che affermano come i prezzi siano eccessivi.

 

l'articolo pone l'accento sul fatto che il provvedimento è stato approvato dal presidente bush nel 91 ma che procede molto lentamente in considerazione del fatto che da oltre 40 anni gli states non costruiscono + battelli convenzionali.

 

Germania, Spagna e olanda non hanno presentato offerte per non guastare i rapporti con la cina, che considera Taiwan parte del proprio territorio fin dalla guerra civile del 1949 ed è pronta ad usare le armi se il governo di taipei dichiarasse formalmente l'indipendenza.

 

 

considerazioni personali: gli states sono gli unici che sfidano pechino fornendo armamenti a taiwan e non a caso una task force è sepre nei paraggi.

ritengo che, esattamente come successe per la classe Gal israeliana (praticamente dei 206 tedeschi costriti in gran bretagna) gli usa impiegheranno un progetto straniero di gradimento a taipei... non a caso fino a poco tempo fa HDW era di proprietà americana.

 

a me sembra una ottima occasione per riacquisire il know how dei battelli convenzionali (che rimangono i migliori nelle "brown waters") e mi sembra eccessivo il prezzo chiesto a taiwan per un vantaggio che è anche loro.

 

attualmente taiwan vanta 2 battelli convenzionali ex olandesi zwardwiss (se ben ricordo) che hanno assunto il nome di classe hai lung.

 

questo l'articolo:

 

Possible Step Forward for Taiwan Submarine Deal

Taiwan’s long-delayed plan to buy eight conventional submarines from the United States may move forward after a reported U.S. concession, legislators said July 16.

Reports said Richard Lawless, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Asia and the Pacific, sent a letter to Taiwan’s defense minister Lee Jye last month.

In an apparent policy shift the U.S. has agreed to let Taipei acquire the fleet of eight diesel-powered submarines in two phases, with payment in design and construction separately, the reports said.

Taiwan’s defense ministry declined to comment.

Legislator Lee Wen-chung from the ruling Democratic Progressive Party, hailed what he called a U.S. concession. “This is tantamount to eliminating the first big hurdle ahead of the arms deal,” Lee told AFP.

Under the reported new measures, Taiwan would pay around $360 million in advance for design and construction preparation.

”At least this would make Taiwan know what type of submarines it would purchase from the United States. This should help the arms deal get going,” said legislator Shuai Hua-ming from the leading opposition Kuomintang.

The United States had previously demanded Taiwan’s parliament approve the deal without providing specifications for the submarines.

Taiwan’s cabinet in 2004 approved a special budget of 610 billion Taiwan dollars ($18.2 billion) for a controversial arms package which called for the eight submarines, P-3C submarine-hunting aircraft and Patriot missiles.

The government was forced to scale back the amount to 340 billion Taiwan dollars under opposition pressure.

But despite the cut, the opposition continued to block the submarine and Patriot deals, with legislators claiming the price for the submarines remained too high.

Washington had estimated the eight conventional submarines for Taiwan’s navy could cost up to $11 billion, more than double the market price, a defense official has told local media.

U.S. President George W. Bush approved the submarine deal in 1991, but it has progressed slowly as the United States has not built conventional submarines for more than 40 years.

Germany and Spain had reportedly declined to offer their designs for fear of offending China, which regards Taiwan as part of its territory awaiting reunification — by force if necessary. The Netherlands had also turned down the deal, lawmakers said.

China regards Taiwan as part of its territory and has said it is prepared to use force if the island declares formal independence. The two split in 1949 after a civil war.

The United States remains the leading arms supplier to Taiwan despite its switching of diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 1979.

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forse non è così idilliaco il rapporto con Taiwan: oggi la risposta non entusiasta del governo di Taipei.

da defensenews

U.S. Letter Fails To Clarify Taiwan Sub Status

The good news, say Taiwanese officials, is that they have received a response to their request that the U.S. Navy look into a two-part approach to providing diesel submarines to the self-governing island. The bad news, they say, is that the letter is lukewarm and confusing.

A debate about obtaining the eight subs proffered by U.S. President George W. Bush in 2001 was stirred up anew by the June 27 letter from Richard Lawless, U.S. defense deputy undersecretary for Asian and Pacific Affairs, to Lee Jye, Taiwan’s defense minister. The letter was obtained in mid-July by Reuters.

Among the reasons for the less-than-enthusiastic reactions: The letter mentions a 2004 missive sent to “former defense minister Li Chieh.” Chieh is a different transliteration of Jye.

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Era da qualche anno che non si parlata di battelli di Taiwan. Lo ha fatto recentemente Defencetalk con l'articolo al link http://www.defencetalk.com/antique-submarines-still-key-to-struggling-taiwan-fleet-60943/v dove non so se emerga più la rassegnazione o la fiera volontà di combattere con qualsiasi mezzo la minaccia cinese. Certo che se non era possibile non offendere la Cina nel 2001 figuriamoci oggi...E infatti sembra che se li costruiranno in casa.

 

Antique submarines still key to struggling Taiwan fleet

At 70 years old, Taiwan’s World War II-era “Hai Pao” submarine would not be out of place in a museum, but the antique vessel is still part of the navy — a sign of the island’s ongoing struggle to strengthen its fleet.

The sub’s interior gleams with highly polished copper and is the pride of its crew.

But the fact that the former US warship is still on active duty is testament to Taiwan’s decades-long battle to build up its submarine force, with potential suppliers wary of jeopardizing relations with China.

China has opposed any arms sales to the island, which it regards as part of its territory, to be reunified by force if necessary.

Yet a modern submarine fleet is critical for Taiwan’s defence, analysts say.

“Submarines would be a credible, survivable deterrent to an opponent’s use of force, and thus make use of force less likely,” said Mark Stokes, executive director of the Project 2049 Institute, a US-based think-tank on Asian security and public policy.

“They would complicate (China’s) People’s Liberation Army planning in a variety of scenarios.”

Submarine dreams
Then-US president George W. Bush approved the sale of eight conventional submarines to Taiwan in April 2001, but they never materialized as Washington focused on its development of nuclear subs.

Germany and Spain, two of the world’s few submarine exporting countries, have also declined to supply Taiwan in what commentators interpret as fear of offending China.

Aside from two aging subs built in the 1940s, Taiwan’s navy operates two other Dutch-built submarines which were commissioned in the late 1980s.

The number is in stark contrast to the Chinese navy, which now owns more than 60 submarines, including 14 that are nuclear-powered.

An official evaluation this year of a potential domestic submarine-building project was “pretty positive”, said lawmaker Lin Yu-fang, of the government’s defence committee.

“The government might set aside a budget to officially launch the Indigenous Defense Submarine project,” he said, though the proposals have yet to be given the green light.

Taiwan will seek to collaborate with the United States on the project, says Lin.

The US remains the island’s leading arms supplier, despite a lack of diplomatic ties.

Taiwan produced 130 Indigenous Defence Fighter (IDF) jets with technological aid from the US in the 1990s.

That project came after the US had refused to sell jet fighters to Taiwan, under pressure from Beijing.

Lin and a parliamentary group recently returned from Washington, where they discussed defence supply plans with government officials and congressmen, focusing on the potential sub program.

“They used to be cold on the issue (of submarines), but this time was different. They were listening attentively when we raised the issue again. They have changed their attitude because we have become active on the deal,” Lin said.

Supporters of the project say the US could reduce political pressure from Beijing if it supplies fighting systems and know-how, rather than the submarines themselves.

Vintage heroes
For now, Taiwan’s two World War II-era Guppy submarines — including the “Hai Pao”, whose name means “Seal” — remain central to their fleet.

Taiwan bought the “Hai Pao”, then called “Tusk”, from the US in 1973 and the vintage sub recently returned from the island’s annual biggest naval wargame.

The fleet also includes the aging “Hai Shih”, or “Sea Lion” — another former US submarine built in the 1940s.

Captain of the “Hai Pao” Liu Si-wei told AFP that his US peers were astonished to hear the antique subs were still in service.

Liu finished an advanced submarine officer training program in the US last year and several of his classmates are now captains of US nuclear-powered submarines.

“When they heard that the two submarines were still on active duty, several of my classmates said ‘fantastic’. They told me, if permitted, they would like very much to have a look at them,” Liu said from on board the “Hai Pao”, docked at the southern Tso-ying naval base.

The navy is planning to spend more than Tw$800 million ($26.35 million) to overhaul one of the old subs next year.

Both will get new hulls as they are currently unable to dive more than 20 metres (66 feet) — less than a tenth of their design depth — due to warped pressure hulls and metal fatigue.

The island’s ultimate ambitions to build its own subs are not pie in the sky, says Stokes — Taiwan has already built a 400,000-tonne oil tanker and seven navy frigates, among other vessels.

“The submarine program would mostly likely be based on a new design or a significant modification of an existing design,” he said.

“Taiwan’s shipbuilding industry is one of the best in the world.”

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i tre ragazzi in foto, il primo sembra che sia il più vecchio sottomarino ancora in servizio attivo.