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Cold Waters


Von Faust

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Apro questa discussione per seguire l'evolversi di questo nuovo gioco.

 

underwater-combat-logo-1024x576.jpg

 

Inizio con il postare alcune delle risposte più interessanti date dagli sviluppatori......

 

- How does it compare to Dangerous Waters in the realism department?

 

he long answer is that it depends on what your definition of realism is. We've elected to focus on realistic weapons, sensors and acoustics. Our acoustics model simulates convergence zones, surface ducts, bottom bounce and shadow zones, to name a few, and our weapons and sensors are modelled according to their real-life performance. Overall we've designed our systems to perform as close to real life as is possible while still providing for a fun gameplay experience without the frustratingly steep learning curve that is common with more procedural sims. What we don't do is micromanagement of individual sonar panels or have you pushing buttons on a faux torpedo launch console.
I think it's important to remember that DW is a commercial version of a USN training simulator while ours is a tactical game about submarine combat if WW3 happened in the mid-80's.

 

During early development we went through several concepts including the traditional DW-like stations approach and we rejected these as providing to sterile an experience, and elected to start with what amounts to a 'clean sheet' design. If you want a very technically accurate but sterile simulation where time-bearing waterfall displays are modelled exactly true to life, then DW already does that. But you have to contend with canned scenarios where winning strategies can be learned. Whereas our game is about commanding a submarine in a real war, where tactical and strategic choices carry consequences in the bigger picture and you can never be sure what awaits you when you encounter the enemy. It's really two entirely different experiences.
That summary would be quite accurate. The systems are simulated but running 'under the hood', leaving the player free to focus on tactical decisions.
We don't simulate the TA in such detail. In the game it really acts like a much more sensitive passive array that allows you listen in the baffles but gets noise saturated much faster than the bow array and is also more susceptible to damage, such as by an RBU barrage. You can still influence the TMA process by maneuvering your boat so as to maximize the TA signal-to-noise ratio and the bearing rate. Likewise erratic maneuvers negatively affect both the TA's effectiveness and the TMA process.
You do manage weapon loadout, weapon presets as well as firecontrol. We use a waypoint system which allows you to manually set run-to-enable and gyro angle with an intuitive drag-and-click interface on the tactical map OR camera bearing + FCS suggested run-to-enable if in external camera mode. As long as you have a wire on the torpedo, you may override it and issue new search modes, run depth or manually steer it in azimuth. If it hasn't activated yet, you can set a new RTE waypoint for it.
The FCS assumes that your crew is timesharing the available trackers except for one, which is reserved for whichever contact you designate as a contact of interest and is prioritized during the TMA process. The Mk48's also feature a datalink which is capable of providing your FCS with target information derived from the torpedo's sensors, in effect allowing you to use it as an offboard sensor.
If you want to support us, the best way is to buy it when we release it. In the meantime feel free to spread the word.
- Is this basically a submarine simulator?
Yes. You command a single submarine.
We (or modding) may enable the control of surface units too at some point.
Dynamic Campaign is very similar to Red Storm Rising.
It is an open theatre where you are assigned a mission. You then have to carry out that mission and hunt down your target, (except for land strikes and insertion missions where you sail to a location). Fortunately recon aircraft, satellites and SOSUS barriers will reveal various enemy movements, however it is up to you to work out which enemy task force is your target and which might be an ASW group hunting you!
There are no mission "paths", instead mission outcome determines the overall balance of the war. The more you lose, the more airbases (and their valuable recon) that can be lost, SOSUS barriers can be destroyed and the Soviets will eventually push into the Norwegian Sea then into the Atlantic where they will overcome NATO convoys delivering materials for the war effort.
Time compression on the strategic map is about 1 second = 1 hour.
- We know we drive subs....
...but in the future will we perhaps be able to drive surface vessels, and maybe aircraft too like dangerous waters?
Firecontrol is consolidated much like it was in Red Storm Rising. Basically there is a TMA process running on any contact, and the targets will show up on the tactical display where your crew thinks they are. Only when solution confidence grows over 85% are the contacts continuously plotted and visible in external views. The speed of the TMA process depends on signal strength, bearing rate, if the target is classified, and whether or not the target is maneuvering. You may select any contact as a target of interest, and it will be prioritized by the TMA process. This simulates the timesharing of trackers aboard real subs.
If there is no time for passive TMA (like in a knife fight scenario) you can use active sonar for a rapid fire solution. Against surface ships you can use passive sensors like ESM or the periscope. There is also active radar, which is useful for BVR attacks on targets who cannot attack you, such as merchants and landing craft. In this scenario ESM is useful for determining whether or not any escorts are around that may counterattack.
Weapons run to a preset waypoint where they will then go active. The FCS will suggest a gyro angle and run-to-enable based on the current solution, but you can override this if you want to. If you launch weapons from 3rd person, they will use the camera bearing along with the suggested run-to-enable distance. If you coordinate your attack from the tactical plot, you get to manually set the waypoint by drag-and-click.
You can change weapon presets before launch or after launch depending on if the wire is intact.
Settings include search patterns, run depth and for missiles whether or not to conduct a pop-up or wavetop attack and the seeker FOV. If you have a wire on your Mk48's you can manually change search patterns or run depth or manually steer the weapon (again from the tactical plot or 3rd person depending on your preference) if the enemy is employing decoys and knuckles as they evade. The torpedoes have a two-way datalink and will send their own sonar data to your FCS when they acquire a target.
This system allows you to concentrate on tactics without having to worry about micromanagement of the various consoles and control panels around the sub.
The tactical plot itself is as reasonable a depiction as research made possible of the MK-117 FCS running on a MK81 console, as would have been fitted to most front-line SSN's during the 80's.
The damage system is based on compartment damage and flooding mechanics much like Atlantic Fleet was. So depending on the nature of the hit, a torpedo or missile is not necessarily guaranteed to kill a target. Ships may go up in a huge explosion or suffer fire damage that cooks off stowed weapons, as an example. Your weapons may also shutdown and fail or turn out to be duds. Friendly fire is also a factor as stray torpedoes which have had their wires cut or broken may circle around and kill you if you don't maintain situational awareness. Sea state and weather affects sound transmission and ambient ocean noise, and it also decreases the effectiveness of enemy surface/air search radars, as well as hull-mounted sonars.
So in bad weather the enemy is less likely to detect your missile launches than on a clear day and they are less likely to spot your periscope or pick you up on passive sonar if you are hovering close to the surface.
Conversely enemy surface ships will use sprint and drift tactics and can hide in the same surface noise, so it goes both ways. Enemy escorts also share target information via datalink which means one ship will track you while others move in for the kill. Or helicopters can pick you up with sonobuys and call down a missile salvo from nearby ships.
As far as controls go, we have manual control of rudder and planes, and also manual ballast controls. There is also a Silent Hunter-like damage control system. Some damage may be repaired underway while others will require a return to port (and losing valuable time).
Edited by serservel
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Come dicevamo via TeamSpeak, e analizzando le risposte, la Killerfish Games sta realizzando un gioco di strategia basato su una storyboard intramontabile: un conflitto silenzioso che potrebbe portare allo scoppio della Terza Guerra Mondiale.

 

Con le loro risposte, gli sviluppatori ci tengono a precisare che dai giochi del passato hanno preso molto (dottrine, caratteristiche delle unità in gioco, realismo nella conduzione della propria unità) ma hanno mantenuto una certa distanza da un simulatore come Dangerous Waters:

 

I think it's important to remember that DW is a commercial version of a USN training simulator while ours is a tactical game about submarine combat if WW3 happened in the mid-80's.

Mi pare di risentire uno di noi membri del gruppo DW quando, durante le manifestazioni pubbliche dove facciamo dimostrazioni, spieghiamo cos'è Dangerous Waters: è un prodotto commerciale nato da simulatori reali, che però ha ricevuto il supporto non ufficiale delle comunità di appassionati i quali, ancora oggi, lo rendono sempre più simulatore e meno gioco. Questo è il motivo per cui DW non sarà mai alla portata del grande pubblico e che ci mette in difficoltà ogni qual volta vogliamo farlo provare ai neofiti che si avvicinano durante le manifestazioni e che non sono disposti a perdere più di qualche minuto: è più facile fare le cose difficili che quelle facili. Non è immediato, ci sono centinaia di fattori da tener presente ogni qual volta si preme un pulsante, fattori che sono ben conosciuti dagli addetti ai lavori e dagli appassionati, ma non dai giocatori occasionali.

 

Cold Waters sembra attestarsi a metà strada: uno strategico che focalizza l'attenzione del giocatore sulla conduzione della propria unità in uno scenario realistico, alle prese con fattori realistici (condizioni meteo e dell'acqua, profili sonar, armi, gestione dei danni, ...) ma senza scendere nei particolari della gestione delle singole unità. Il giocatore è il comandate che dirige il proprio sommergibile, non un membro dell'equipaggio che svolge una o più funzioni. Niente multistation, per essere chiari.

 

Impossibile fare previsioni, ammetto che sono molto curioso di vederlo all'opera: spero che il rilascio della prima release non sia troppo lontano.

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Una possibilità, credo molto realistica, è che si ottenga un prodotto simile a Silent Hunter. Forse il prodotto iniziale non sarà hardcore ma se il prodotto sarà valido ci penseranno i fans a renderlo più realistico (proprio come è accaduto per Silent Hunter con le varie MOD uscite negli anni).

 

Speriamo in bene...

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L'uscita è prevista tra mesi (mi pare di aver letto da qualche parte metà 2017).

Mi fa piacere che si siano mossi in anticipo credo con l'intenzione di sondare ciò che si aspettano gli appassionati. Non ho ancora visto discussioni sul multiplayer.

 

EDIT:

 

Domanda su possibili sviluppi del multiplayer fatta.

 

Interessante risposta degli sviluppatori alla domanda: SLBM Launches Possible?

 

"Not at this time as playable vessels are currently limited to attack submarines.

We'd have to add the functionality for this and then modders should eventually be able to add the models etc. That is assuming we don't do it ourselves by then as it might be easily derived from VLS equipped attack subs."
Sembrerebbe quindi sia modder-friendly
Edited by Von Faust
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mmmm finalmente, qualcuno si è ricordato che esiste gente appassionata di giochi/simulatori navali... Ora, la mia domanda è solo una: si potranno utilizzare unità di superficie e subacquee, o solo i Sottomarini???

 

P.S.: Accidenti... scrivo su google "Cold Waters"... Come primo risultato mi esce un video... Bene felice pensando fosse un qualcosa inerente il gioco... Mi ritrovo a vedere un video del bimbomi@@@ia Justin Bieber... Ma vafffff!!!! :wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:

Edited by E-Star
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Grazie... Beh non è una buona notizia questa... Speriamo bene!!!

 

E' difficile basarsi su i pochi dettagli che hanno messo a disposizione gli sviluppatori. Mancando anche una data di rilascio, mi viene il sospetto che stiano sondando il terreno per capire dov'è l'interesse dei giocatori. Anche se poi non ci fosse alcun sviluppo ufficiale per il lato delle piattaforme di superficie e, perché no, aeree, forse le mod (se mai verranno) potrebbero metterci una pezza

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  • 2 weeks later...

Botta e risposta con uno sviluppatore:

 

RPS: For me, a big part of Atlantic Fleet’s charm was its variety – the regular shifts between surface, sub-surface, and aerial activity. With just one player controlled unit in Cold Waters, isn’t there a danger that CW will lack some of its predecessor’s variety?

Paul: Going from 60+ ship classes to 4 submarine classes certainly decreases the variety of playable units but Cold Waters offers a much greater variety and depth of experiences. Short range knife fights with enemy submarines, steer wire guided torpedoes, avoid ASW patrols and mines to get your SEAL team ashore, stalk SSBNs, hide behind an iceberg, pop above the layer for a quick listen, intercept an amphibious landing force headed for Iceland before they can take out Keflavik airbase and the SOSUS barrier covering the Denmark Strait. These things just didn’t happen in Atlantic Fleet.

Atlantic Fleet is something like a miniatures board game involving lots of units with their various capabilities. Cold Waters is a subsim.

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RPS: What type of sub will we be simming?

Paul: At release the SSN classes Skipjack, Permit, Sturgeon and Los Angeles are on track to be playable.

RPS: “Realistic sonar model” implies that you’re simulating stuff like thermal layers and bottom bounce. Is that the case?

Paul: A lot of research has gone into the sonar model and although much of it occurs in the background, there is no waterfall display and so forth, the tactics associated with underwater acoustics and sonar detection are indeed valid.

For those wanting details, the sonar model simulates: thermal layers, surface ducts, shadow zones, convergence zones, propagation and transmission loss, ambient noise (based on sea state, rain, shallows and ice), bottom bounce, active sonar target aspect, flow noise, baffles, target masking, cavitation and transients. In addition, we model the various active, passive, towed array, dipping and sonobuoy equipment of the era with differing levels of sensitivity and thus detection ranges.

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RPS: Am I right in thinking that CW won’t model individual stations aboard the sub, or offer first-person interior or conning tower views?

Paul: That is correct. In combat, Cold Waters will have the ubiquitous periscope view along with a tactical map to complement what’s going on in the environment. Damage control and weapon load out screens are also available.

RPS: Will the abilities, health and morale of the crew influence the action in any way?

Paul: No. As with our previous games, we tend to treat ships and their crews as individual capable fighting units. It is assumed that the crew and officers on board are doing their jobs while you do yours.

RPS: A Cold War setting suggests that the spectre of thermonuclear war will be ever-present. Can CW’s campaign end in global catastrophe?

Paul: In Red Storm Rising the war ultimately ended with diplomacy. In Cold Waters we’ve upped the ante and the situation can deteriorate into global thermonuclear war.

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RPS: Killerfish’s belief in dynamic campaigns is refreshing. Are the studios that claim that they’re expensive and difficult to develop telling the truth?

Paul: They can be difficult and expensive, but designing a campaign within your resources and possessing a strong passion for the subject matter certainly help overcome these. It is far too easy to fall into the trap of an over ambitious and complex dynamic campaign. As long as it is balanced, immersive and provides compelling choices for the player, preferably with consequences, it should work.

One has to wonder if dynamic campaigns are just not a priority these days when multi-player and social gaming along with advertising and monetised Skinner box designs can generate far greater returns for far less development investment and risk.

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RPS: Atlantic Fleet was remarkably affordable. Are you planning to offer CW at a similar price point?

Paul: No unfortunately. Despite an additional 6 months of work to bring Atlantic Fleet to PC, we decided to keep the price point where it had been for the mobile marketplace. Many mobile ports get accused of being quick money grabs or of gouging the PC market and we didn’t want to be among them.

The upside was this was received very well and built a great community of fans, who have come out in droves to support Cold Water’s Steam Greenlight campaign. The downside was that Atlantic Fleet for PC was underpriced, impeding our ability to continue financing its expansion and development.

Cold Waters will be a full PC game with a dynamic campaign and mod support. We’ll have to price it accordingly.

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RPS: Did Atlantic Fleet sell as well as you had hoped on PC and did the feedback influence the Cold Waters design in any way?

Paul: Atlantic Fleet actually exceeded our expectations, especially given its mobile heritage and the stigma associated with mobile ports to PC and yes, feedback influenced Cold Waters greatly. First it validated our decision to move to PC as there was clearly a market for players wanting the type of naval games we do. Secondly, and as expected, we found PC gamers are more sophisticated and desire deeper detail and realism, hence the switch to a real time simulation. Finally the feedback highlighted the crucial need for mod support which has been central to Cold Waters development from the beginning.

RPS: Your ‘About’ page suggests that Killerfish is a two-man outfit. Is that the case?

Paul: There’s myself (programmer) and Nils Dücker (lead artist) full time. In addition we have another consulting artist Przemek Starkiewicz who focuses mostly on 2D art and special effects full time. After that we outsource music composition and other tasks that our core group might lack the time or expertise for.

RPS: Thank you for your time

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  • 2 months later...

Se solo avessero un'idea sulla prima release...comunque stuzzica pure me, lo tengo d'occhio su Steam

 

Leggevo un po' di risposte che gli sviluppatori stanno dando alle varie domande (sono estremamente disponibili e recettivi).

 

Progressi:

"We're making excellent progress.

Just finished the final user interface and are working on upgrading the ship graphics even further for PC."

 

Moddabilità:

"Database edits and new content can be created.

We're making all the text data files accessible, so you can modify parameters of the ships, weapons, aircraft and sonar/sensor model. You simply put a modified text file into an "override" directory and it will use this file instead of the default. Some texture, audio and movie files can also be overridden this way.

 

Scripts or coding are not directly supported. However pretty much all the content of the campaign (including parameters defining unit/recon behaviour on the strategic map) is exposed allowing you to edit or even create an entire new campaign. We authored the official campaign using these same tools. New custom single missions can also be easily added.

 

All language is exposed too for translations and/or editing of all text content including mission briefings, event descriptions, unit descriptions, the entire user interface and message log statements.

 

Unfortunately new ship models and particle effects are not supported at this time. "

 

Data rilascio:

"Release date: conservatively we'd estimate down to only months away. Perhaps out by mid-year."

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Data rilascio:

"Release date: conservatively we'd estimate down to only months away. Perhaps out by mid-year."

 

Attendiamo fiduciosi, forza sviluppatori!

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

E' appena disponibile su STEAM...

 

costo 36,99 euro.

 

Al momento è in modalità Singleplayer. Con una campagna dinamica.

 

Personalmente aspetterò qualche promozione per acquistarlo (magari a Natale) :wink:

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E' appena disponibile su STEAM...

 

costo 36,99 euro.

 

Al momento è in modalità Singleplayer. Con una campagna dinamica.

 

Personalmente aspetterò qualche promozione per acquistarlo (magari a Natale) :wink:

 

Credo anch'io, aspetterò giudizi di altri, patch varie etc etc

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Ho visto ieri un bel video gampeplay su YouTube... Purtroppo la mancanza del multiplayer gli fa perdere troppo... Si possono utilizzare solo i Sub. Niente navi o aerei. Al momento non vale quello che costa...

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Ho visto ieri un bel video gampeplay su YouTube... Purtroppo la mancanza del multiplayer gli fa perdere troppo... Si possono utilizzare solo i Sub. Niente navi o aerei. Al momento non vale quello che costa...

 

Concordo, bastava poco per renderlo molto più appetibile.

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Allego un GamePlay fatto da SUBSIM... Non capisco perché non posso ingrandire le finestre degli apparati tipo Idrofono o Sonar... Spero che il supporto al gioco sia costante e soprattutto che ascoltino i consigli dei giocatori...!!!
Ho letto però che il gioco è facilmente moddabile... Quindi non è da escludersi la possibilità di vedere Battelli di altre nazionalità (e xchè no anche quelli italiani).
Buona visione

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2WqLYXqzIws" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edited by E-Star
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Qualcuno sta giocando a Cold Waters?

 

Io sto "studiando" un po' di gameplay su Youtube ma non mi convince proprio, non ci trovo nulla di coinvolgente se non la grafica.

Il gioco è moddabile e se ho capito bene hanno già reso utilizzabili i sub russi.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sono in linea con voi...credo siano davvero troppi € 36,99 per un gioco appena uscito e di cui si sa poco o nulla

 

Io continuo a tenerlo sott'occhio su Youtube e mi convince sempre di meno.

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In giro vedo e leggo che lo stanno moddando pesantemente (stanno nascendo le prime unità di superficie giocabili) e che gli sviluppatori sono molto attivi e disponibili....................ma ripeto, manca il multiplayer :dry:

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Bah, continuo a non vederci nulla di che. Anche io noto entusiasmo, evidentemente non siamo in sintonia...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sono già in circolazione varie MOD, una di queste (credo sia la principale) ha introdotto:

 

Mod Features

  • Playable Subs Added:
    • USA

    • Los Angeles (Flight II) Class SSN

    • Los Angeles (Flight III 688i) Class SSN

    • Seawolf Class SSN

    • Virginia Class SSN

    • Ohio Class SSBN

    • Ohio Class SSGN (Conversion)

    • Guppy IIa Class SS

    • Tang Class SS

    • Barbel (Early) Class SS

    • Barbel Class SS

      Britain

    • Oberon Class SS

    • Upholder Class SS

    • Resolution Class SSBN

    • Astute Class SSN

    • Churchill Class SSN

    • Dreadnought Class SSN

    • Swiftsure Class SSN

    • Trafalgar Class SSN

    • Valliant Class SSN

      Japan

    • Yushio Class SS

      Germany

    • Type 212 Class SS

      France

    • Redoubtable Class SSBN

    • Rubis Class SSN

      Russia

    • Foxtrot Class SS

    • Kilo Class SS

    • Romeo Class SS

    • Tango Class SS

    • Whiskey Class SS

    • November Class SSN

    • Victor I Class SSN

    • Victor II Class SSN

    • Victor III Class SSN

    • Alfa Class SSN

    • Mike Class SSN

    • Sierra Class SSN

    • Akula I Class SSN

    • Akula II Class SSN

    • Typhoon Class SSBN

    • Typhoon Class SSGN (Conversion)

    • Yankee Class SSBN

    • Yankee "Sidecar" Class SSGN (Conversion)

    • Delta III Class SSBN

    • Delta IV Class SSBN

    • Juliet Class SSG

    • Charlie I Class SSGN

    • Charlie II Class SSGN

    • Echo II Class SSGN

    • Oscar Class SSGN

    • Experimental Typhoon Class SSBN "Red October" (Silent Drive)

    • Experimental Typhoon Class SSBN "Red October" (Conventional Drive)
  • Various New Weapons
  • Various New Single Missions
  • Various New Sensors
  • "Red" Russian UI for Russian subs
  • Unique Damage Control images for the new subs
  • Unique sonar profiles for all US submarines
  • Working VLS systems for appropriate classes
  • Various other tweaks and fixes
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  • 1 year later...
16 hours ago, E-Star said:

Il gioco nella versione 1.15

Ho giocato e eseguito varie prove. Adesso sembra molto più giocabile. Manca sempre il supporto Multiplayer purtroppo.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjwYzDfVkPk&feature=youtu.be

 

Lo sto seguendo di sfuggita ed ho visto che ha subito molte migliorie.

Lo usi molto ? Come ti sembra ?

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27 minutes ago, Von Faust said:

 

Lo sto seguendo di sfuggita ed ho visto che ha subito molte migliorie.

Lo usi molto ? Come ti sembra ?

 

Come simulazione niente a che vedere con DW, ma con le migliorie che hanno apportato è diventato parecchio godibile... La prima versione ricordo era del tutto imbarazzante!!!

Edited by E-Star
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