I Bunker Per Sottomarini Jugoslavi

[Totiano*]

Bunker per sottomarini della ex Marina di Jugoslavia, dietro la cittadina di Bozava (Dugi Otok) e davanti a Zverinak. In grado di ospitare i piccoli Una (87t) ma anche gli Heroj (700t) e Sava (900t).

Foto grazie al nostro Peve, che è entrato tranquillamente (sembra che sia stato tutto dimesso)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Totiano*]

Tanto per capire di chi parliamo, questi sono Heroj, oggi musealizzato in Montenegro, e il battello per incursori Una

 

[magico_8°/88*]

Sono diversi i bunker (oserei dire più ricoveri momentanei che veri e propri bunker...) per sommergibili ormai dismessi dalla ex Marina Jugoslava, e tra l'altro in posti così turistici della Dalmazia che esiste un tour per velisti con i vari approdi...momentanei

 

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/travel/26468-sailing-in-croatia-exploring-submarine-tunnels-in-dalmatia

[CubanFoxtrot]

Vi sarebbe mica possibile deliziarci con qualche ben informata considerazione su scopi e capacità operative di questi battelli Heroj/Sava negli anni '70/80/90, stimati comandanti?

Mille grazie.

Modificato 30 Luglio, 2018 da CubanFoxtrot

[madmike]

Ah, non c'è molto da dire: erano semplici sottomarini per uso costiero, perfettamente in linea con la missione di difesa delle coste della marina Jugoslava, che annoverava solo sub di quel tipo (inteso come tipologia, SS costieri, un po come i nostri Toti) e mezzi insidiosi per eventuali attacchi sia all'esterno che nelle isole dell'arcipelago.

 

Da tenere presente che fra i nemici, non c'eravamo solo noi, ma anche l'Albania....

[Regia Marina *]

Ecco qualche dato sulla classe Heroj

 

Displacement:

• 614 tonnes (604 long tons) (surfaced)
• 705 tonnes (694 long tons) (submerged)

Length: 50.4 m (165 ft) Depth: 210 m (689 ft 0 in) Propulsion:

• One shaft; diesel-electric
• 2 × Mercedes MB 820N diesel engines
• 1 × Končar electric motor

Speed:

• 15.3 kn (28 km/h; 18 mph) (surfaced, maximum)
• 9.8 knots (18 km/h; 11 mph) (submerged)

Range: 4,100 nmi (7,593 km; 4,718 mi) at 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph) Complement: 28 Armament:

• 4 × 533 mm (1 ft 9.0 in) torpedo tubes for:
• 6 × torpedoes or
• 12 × naval mines

 

I siluri erano di derivazione sovietica SET-65E (533mm)

Sonar: Thomson Sintra Eledone

Radar di superficie: Snoop Group

Radar di allerta (RWR): Stop Light

 

fonte: Wikipedia in lingua inglese

[CubanFoxtrot]

Grazie ad entrambi!

Ho fatto anch'io una veloce ricerca (parola chiave: podmornicar ) e son spuntate cosette simpatiche.

 

Ad esempio, mini-documentario dell'epoca a bordo del P-831 Sava:

 

Sempre su YT si trova un video di un Foxtrot libico a Tivat nell'estate 85.

 

Storielle varie che riporto tradotte in automatico da Google:

 

...

Rajko Bulatovic, the commander of the Navy of Montenegro, receives me in his cabin. My old acquaintance and friend, a submariner with great experience who has passed all his duties and commanded almost all submarines that were on the fleet. High, slim and aristocratic manners, a real submarine whose character and work would not even get rid of the submarine fleet of the United States and Great Britain. He was recently at a NATO gathering and went on a conversation with a German admiral who at the beginning of the nineties commanded a German frigate in the maritime blockade of the territorial waters of the FR of Yugoslavia.

"You know, we had a contact with a submarine that came in an underwater drive from the direction of Yugoslav territorial waters. We first located it on the sonar of the frigate, so we quickly lost it. It disappeared like a ghost, we had to lift a helicopter from our frigate to locate it again. We lost about an hour there. When we finally found her, she was out of the Yugoslav territorial waters and was exactly at an angle of 90 degrees compared to our frigate. For the submarine, this is the best position to fire torpedoes, and I must admit that as a commander of the German frigate at that time I did not feel the most pleasant. We were a massive submersible target for the Yugoslav submarine, its underwater position in relation to my ship was a threatening message, and I did not know which crazy commanded that submarine. He could calmly launch the torpedo, the distance was small and now I probably would not have spoken to you. However, they told us from the helicopter that the submarine is slowly moving away in the direction of Yugoslav territorial waters. "

"That crazy submarine commander, Mr. Admiral, was just me. It was a Yugoslav submarine of the class 'Heroj', and you were difficult to locate me because I used thermal differences in the layers of the sea. Naturally, I had you on a target thanks to the acoustics, but you were still outside our territorial waters, "Bulatovic replied.

"And if I were inside your waters, you would not have launched a torpedo," was a scorched German.

"Bih, I'm a professional submariner!"

They drank whiskey in that name. My friend Rajko Bulatovic. Submarine Count.

...

 

Silent for the Sixth Fleet
In the year in which seven and a half decades of submarine is celebrated, six submarines of the Navy cork tied in the Tivat port
In glorious days, they were silent for the Sixth Fleet. Vladimir Milatovic, retired captain of the battleship, remembers that when he was a young second lieutenant, in the submarine "Heroj" in 1974, he waited
the bottom of the Adriatic is a powerful American convoy. Above the Yugoslav submarine was sailed by a US Navy aircraft carrier, surrounded by an imposing escort. In many cases, the Yugoslav submarines were waiting at the bottom of international territorial waters, knowing that they would pass Soviet, German,
British or French fleet. Specialists of hydrocouriers recorded "noise" of foreign ships. Every tension in the Mediterranean, or anywhere in the world, was a signal for an alert in the 88th submarine fleet:
when Aldo Moro was killed, when the market crash was at its peak, at the time of the Egyptian-Israeli war. Put your head in the water and hear what's happening in the Suez Canal. They looked through the periscope and freight
ships sailing to Ploče or Pula, loaded with weapons for Croats or Muslims. But the use of submarines in combat operations is, above all, a political decision. During the war against NATO, Yugoslav submarines also did not sail. It is estimated that any submarine attacks on NATO ships would be suicidal.
No diving
While this year marks 75 years of submarine training in Serbia and Montenegro, six submarines of the Navy float in the naval base in Tivat, while two are still preserved. The Croats only accommodated the Zeta submarine, which was located on a general overhaul in the hall of the shipyard
special facilities in Split, where all our submarines were built since 1966. "There is no diving, there is no quality training, no progression, there is no training. The unit is slowly shut down,
although he is the oldest in the Navy, "said retired Colonel Milan Komar on the current state of the submarine fleet." Komar spent 6,800 hours under water, sailed 34,000 miles in a submarine in 10 years, plus five years in the fleet command. water
from a depth of 303 meters. They drank a scoop somewhere at the bottom, and then they poured it with water, for memory.
...

 

TWO DECENTS AFTER THE BEST INCIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF SFRY PODMORNIČARSTVO

Niksic burns stoves for "Drava"

Tivat - The second guards at the headquarters of the newest and most modern submarine of the Yugoslav navy "Drava P-832" and peaceful October night in 1983 routinely sailed at a depth of 30 meters, several tens of miles south of the island of Mljet. Already a bit tired, submarines were brought to the end of the ninth day of regular patrol by the Adriatic Sea and the waters of the Otranto Channel. Navigating to the mainland port of Lora in Split, about 30 miles south of Mljet, the helmsmen and officers noticed something was wrong ...
- We felt that the submarine became somewhat "heavy," but we pumped out excess water and kept the ship at a given depth. No one knew what was going on, but later it turned out that a hole on the "solid hull" of the submarine had been discovered. Through such a tiny aperture, the water slowly penetrated, at one point in the bow threw the accumulators and the clamps, so there was a short circuit - a story for "Vijesti" captain of the frigate in retired Mario Crvelin, who in autumn 1983 as a young lieutenant corvette was embroidered on the "Drava".
It was a powerful short circuit that at the moment from the drive threw out all Dravine devices and systems and left it without a drive.
- The connection was so strong that the sea that flowed just started cooking, the temperature grew and it was so hot that the rubber boots on our shoes became soft. Submersible voltage dropped, vapors appeared on ventilation sleeves. The service officer and the drive supervisor immediately "threw out" the damaged ac battery and immersed it, but in the meantime the submarine was left without power and without power. In total darkness, the "Drava", which entered about three tonnes of sea, slowly began to sink. We have fallen to the bottom, which was far below the point at which a huge water pressure would ruin the "Drava" and immediately kill the whole crew - Crvel's recalls the hardest moments in his career.
Conscious of this, the crew fought fiercely to save both the ship and themselves, while the navigators informed the commander, the lieutenant of the battleship of Slobodan Jelic, about the depth of the depth they were unbridled in.
- Data is a combat alert. There was no electricity, the compass, the echo sounder and the other power devices did not work, we remained without hydraulics, all we had to do manually, "Crvelin said, adding that the crew then had fear, but there was no panic.
In the next half an hour, they all tried hard to train the submarine, but the "Drava" did not stop. Carried by inertia, she sank into the dark abyss below her.
Only about 180 meters with a halt stopped and slowly started to the surface, accompanied by a sigh of relief to all crew members. Totally empty tanks, "Drava" then, however, accelerated the way like an express lift, simply flying to the surface. The crew struggled to open up the jets and into the tanks again releasing the sea to safely, and not uncontrollably, landed. At about 40 meters of depth, it went hand in hand. The "Drava" landed in the international waters of the Adriatic at around 23.30. The danger, however, has not yet been eliminated. On the road to Mljet, a short flared up again, and then a smaller fire, and the whole submarine was in the dark and wrapped in smoke, so the crew worked under the masks and with breathing apparatus. Crvelin says that immediately the command was notified. The situation was so critical that Split, for the first time in the JRM history, communicated completely openly, without the usual code.
- The Italians also heard these telegrams, but I do not know if they offered help. In Lora, everything got on its feet, the Rescue Squad, the divers, the barracks were ready, and our planes collided with us. However, we managed to slowly reach the Mljet Canal itself and the next morning about 11 o'clock we drove to Split - says Crvelin.
The "Drava" welcomed the most responsible officers in Lora, took over the reserve crew, and exhausted submarines sent for vacation homes, noting that everything that happened had to be firmly fixed on the teeth language. So it was up to this day ...
"Drava P-832" was designed in Zagreb, and was built in 1980 in Split. Although in the meantime they have been proclaimed a surplus in MVSCG and offered for sale, these submarines still represent very modern and deadly warships. "Drava" has been formally in a major overhaul for ten years, so it is disassembled at the arena of the Tivat Arsenal's synchro-lifts. Although there is interest in buying Drava, since the state sells Arsenal with the intention of turning it into a marina, and foreign buyers want to buy exclusively the right and repaired submarines, this submarine will probably end up in the Niksic stove instead of under a foreign flag Ironworks.

 

Versioni locali del Jane's Fighting Ships...

 

Quante cose si posson scoprire volendo. Non basta una vita.

Modificato 30 Luglio, 2018 da CubanFoxtrot

[magico_8°/88*]

Versioni locali del Jane's Fighting Ships...

 

Quante cose si posson scoprire volendo. Non basta una vita.

 

Cuban le foto non si vedono...

 

Invece io da parte nel mio hd ho questa immagine...molto triste...della fine della componente sottomarina Jugoslava in un porto del Montenegro (Tivat se non sbaglio...)

 

http://

Modificato 30 Luglio, 2018 da magico_8°/88

[CubanFoxtrot]

Cuban le foto non si vedono...

 

Chiedo venia.

Dovrebbero vedersi ora.

[Regia Marina *]

Chiedo venia.

Dovrebbero vedersi ora.

 

Ora si vedono.

[CubanFoxtrot]

Qualche insight (proto-)idroacustica...

 

 

Prototype testing of submarines P831 and P832, Results of HA measurements of embedded HA devices, acoustic field and target submarines P831 and P832, models of the Sava and Drava

Habdija, Vladimir; Komeštik, Vladislav; Mandzuka, Fahrudin; Milošić, Zvonimir; Popović, Želimir; Saje, Zoran; Šlibar, Ljudevit; Vukadin, Predrag

Prototype testing of submarines P831 and P832, Results of HA measurements of embedded HA devices, acoustic field and target submarines P831 and P832, models Sava and Drava, 1983 (expertise).

Title
Prototype testing of submarines P831 and P832, Results of HA measurements of embedded HA devices, acoustic field and target submarines P831 and P832, models of the Sava and Drava
(The prototype measurements of submarines P831 and P832, Results of measurements of HA characteristics of built-in HA equipments, hydroacoustic field and target strength of submarines P831 and P832, model Sava and Drava)

Authors
Habdija, Vladimir; Komeštik, Vladislav; Mandzuka, Fahrudin; Milošić, Zvonimir; Popović, Želimir; Saje, Zoran; Šlibar, Ljudevit; Vukadin, Predrag

Original
PO02-02-027 / PS-NC05-621

Type, subtype
Other types of papers, expertise

Year
1983

Keywords
Active sonar; passive sonar; measurements; hydroacoustic field; range of sonars; target force; forecast range; noise
(Active sonar; passive sonar; measurement; hydroacoustic field; sonar range; target strength; prognosis of range; noise)

Summary
The paper presents a theoretical statement of the orientation characteristics of the funnel antenna of the active sonar of the Arctic-M model and the passive sonar Phenix-M (Eastern USSR technology) for the purpose of controlling the tactical technical (TT) characteristics given by the manufacturer. Within the HA system, with its own program (HP-BASIC software) Lijan on the HP9835B electronic computer with the HP9872A printer for calculating the Directivity Index (DI), a graphical presentation of the antenna directional characteristics was realized. The HA parameters of the Feniks-M passive sonar were carried out in a port and on a polygon at sea, and according to the program, its range of measurements was measured on various objects along with a comprehensive grapho-analytical calculation. On the basis of the acquired experience in the measurement, and the comprehensive calculation of the range of active and passive sonars located on the submarines, suitable models for similar tests of the HA device and other navigable objects are given. Also, in accordance with the set tasks for testing the operation of the sonars, the forecast of the range was made with a special HA computer system. Accordingly, other parameters of the active / passive hydrolysation equation are also measured and analyzed.

Source language
Croatian

Scientific areas
Electrical engineering

Institutions
Brodarski institut doo

 

E su questo non gira DW mi sa.

 

 

So I'll call myself. I was an electronics officer who was the hydro-surgeon at "Hero" 821 from mid-1969 to mid-1971 in Lora, Split. My experiences are pretty impressive because we have been driving a lot. I am Beli and our commander was Mate Parun and Assistant Vidakovic. We were pretty busy because we made a complete torpedo attack over Peg and torpedo computer (Ozic). Jovanov was on the Situation Table and Cojic was Commander 1 BO. I followed and pointed to the target, the computer calculated, determined the combat course and the moment of the torpedo launch. The parun followed all over the periscope and did not correct me. A school torpedo was launched that went under the keel of the target shaft almost exactly in half. It was then shown that the PEG noise data were listened and viewed through a small cathode ray tube could be reliably used. It was possible to almost deviate the course of speeds and types of drives. In the case of getting out of the attack of patrol boats, I knew that the slow-moving ship kept PEL contact on us, and that which speeds up the loss of PEL contact due to cavitation and increased disturbances, and this one leads us to us. Depending on the direction of the attack eg. from bow thrusters attacked stern sliders (deep bombers and when they came from the stern sectors, they attacked bow thugs - the hedgehogs with which they needed to be approaching so much.The pulling tactics of the dog curve, for example, depended on this data. Much about this, but for the forum this is OK. I note that PEG should have hearing and much exercise in the cabinet where they listened to the types of underwater noise with the explanation of the speaker.

 

I spent on submarines 5 years (811 and 821) as an electronics engineer, among others, for hydroacoustics. Using a passive device, a pedestrian (PEG - Underwater Electric Goniometer), I could detect on 12 NM objects, their course, type of drive, speed, etc. With the help of it, the guided crew leads a complete torpedo attack or pulls out when it is detected and attacked. Active devices PEL (underwater electric locator) used mainly underwater driving in narrow passages and rarely when to maintain the connection. When the submarine needed to establish with some embroidery, it had to drive at a periscope depth of 12 meters. The antenna is then hydraulically lifted and a connection can be maintained.
Today electronics are so far ahead that it is very possible that there are radical changes in hydroacoustics.

 

http://www.thales7seas.com/html_2014/products/625/Eledone_Submarine_Sonar.pdf

 

Modalità spia off per oggi.

Modificato 30 Luglio, 2018 da CubanFoxtrot